Who, you mean to 88retirw
(I've left out crossbow1
, as he seems to have already cottoned on)
If those ppl are boyan_fraser
's friends list, then yes, I do indeed mean them.
The plagiarizing journal from last year had around 80 friends, but remember, we used the same standardized message on all of them, and divided the work among a handful of ppl. Most ppl were very grateful to be notified that the writing they were admiring was not that person's own, and then they de-friended and left, leaving that journal pretty moot. (after that LJ abuse team deleted the account, but it often takes them some time to do that, and in this case, tham being dead, they might not defend her material at all)
I also think we could write to the moderators of all the writing communities that boyan_fraser
is in. It is particularly these kind of people that BF wants to impress, and those are also the most likely to be disgusted with his behavior when they know the truth.
I wonder if LJ might find it in their hearts to make another exception, Tham being dead, the same as when they honored our request to make her account a Memorial one.
You don't need to contact me and I would be much obliged if my name is never mentioned in context with his ever again.
Several of the people on this list are already aware of what is going (centim knows and is mentioned in the report, deadbeat_nymph posted a horrified reaction on fandom_lounge, wanton_erato is also mentioned and melancthe seems to be active over at fandom_lounge too, I already infomred happywriter as one of the mods of foxriver_fic
where he advertised his not self written incest meta).
Just a comment on this.
I am on that list, and I, along with I'm sure many of those people, are aware of this issue. Indeed I have done my part with regard to spreading the message, getting him deleted from comms, and chastising boyan_fraser myself.
The reason I have not yet de-friended him is because his is, in response, de-friending people who de-friend him (obviously), and as all his entries which are now not completely locked are F-locked, I have been looking to maintain my access to past posts should they be required as 'evidence' by the people taking action against this plagarist. After all, one cannot take screen shots of something one cannot see.
So, please consider that there might be a bigger picture here, and do not indulge in any kind of 'demonising' of people on this person's Friends List. We were all taken in, had our trust abused, and are already suffering enough from being made to look foolish by this person, thanks.
Oh, and BTW, deadbeat_nymph
has already de-friended this LJ and been de-friended by BF in return.
Thank you for stopping by to talk about this. I understand your concerns.
Despite some unfortunate lashing out that has taken place elsewhere, I don't think anyone here is looking to villify the people on B_F's Friends list. We know that most, if not all, of you were unaware of B_F's actions. And I already discussed with my co-mod here the fact that some of you who have learned of the situation may well be staying on the list to have access to that locked content for evidence. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that.
Seal's idea was not to harass any of you, but just to construct a polite and tactful message to send folks privately, to make sure that no one was still having their trust abused and still, unknowingly, giving credit to B_F for the words of someone we cherished.
I've been keeping an eye on the threads here, at journalfen, and related links, so that, if we do go forward with the idea of sending that message, I will do my best to make sure we're not contacting anyone we know already has learned what B_F has been doing. And, again, the message would not be attacking recipients, just informing.
Well I appreciate that you had already considered the reasoning for staying on this person's F-list that I mentioned.
I appreciate the reasoning being Seal's idea of ensuring that people on B_F's F-list are informed of what has transpired, and agree with it of course. My problem is with the public listing of the people concerned on this thread. Please see my response to Seal below as to my reasoning. As I said to her, I would appreciate it if that list posted by captainlucy
could be removed from this thread.
What on earth gave you the impression that anyone was thinking ill of BF's friendslist? You are after all only people who were liking the late thamiris
writing, which only shows good taste!
In the case of plagiarism I was referring to last year, and which was successfully concluded with that journal's deletion, we merely sent polite notes to all on the f-list which basically said that "if you want to read the original, you can go here and here" and so forth. After all, most writing people are thankful when plagiarism is exposed, and they do not like to be tricked.
By all means stay and keep an eye on the journal. My hope is still that boyan_fraser
will become if not entirely than at least almost friendless and also banned from all communities he's on, when all this is over, but even if someone would stay because they like the guy, it is not my place to judge on that. I merely want ppl to be informed
about the situation, as I'm sure you do too.
The reason I gained the impression you refer to is the post above specifically naming the people on B_F's f-list, which implied some kind of effort (albeit, I appreciate, possibly an unintended one) of 'naming and shaming' the various individuals.
I would have expected that anyone wishing to contact those on this person's F-list could simply refer to the F-list itself, which, after all, I assume remains public as long as the journal is in existence. There was really no need to create this 'list' and post it here, as it means that these people's names will now stay associated with this person even once they have de-friended him, and even though they may find their association with him a cause for pain and embarrassment (even though our intentions were good, and our taste impeccable given that, as far as I know, most of us friended him due to the wit and wisdom of the journal entries).
You'll see this sentiment is implied in passion_writer
's comment above:"I would be much obliged if my name is never mentioned in context with his ever again."
I would go so far as to say that I would appreciate it if the comment by captainlucy
above was removed from this thread. I am fairly sure that once this whole debacle is finally resolved, and those of us still on this person's F-list for the reasons discussed have removed themselves, we would prefer not to have any record of our association with this person left anywhere on LJ, including - or even most especially - here.
I appreciate that you may wish to make sure that anyone still remaining on B_F's F-list in a week or so, who you are not sure has been informed of these issues, is aware of this person's extremely distasteful actions, and may wish to send the kind of message you refer to. This is of course not only perfectly acceptable, but a good idea. But I think this can be done by referring to the list on B_F's profile, without mentioning the people concerned anywhere else.
I am sure that B_F will indeed become almost entirely friendless and persona non grata in a short period of time, and of course any reasonable action to ensure this should be taken.
I will also just say that I know at least a couple of us consider the one positive to have come out of this whole awful business is that we have discovered Thamiris's wonderful words. If only B_F could have introduced us to them via fully accredited posts, and not via this sham of a persona.
herself can delete her comment (I think), but I actually thought that her comment listing of BF's f-list was more a hint at me, and that my idea to send messages to 30-something people was over the top... :)
I'm not involved in the world of fandom that much, but know enough to have a certain respect for how fast word travels there..but from my standpoint it would be idiocy to blame BF's friends list, hey, for all I know I could be on it if I hadn't been LJ buddy with Thamiris, I'm drawn to nice writing and that's one of my first criteria when I friend someone.Edited at 2008-01-06 03:53 am (UTC)
My thoughts exactly, wanton_erato. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Nice choice of quote, by the way. ^_^
"AND DO NOT INDULGE IN ANY KIND OF "DEMONISING" OD PEOPLE ON THIS PERSON'S F-LIST" -
Well spoken, *WANTON*, my dear friend. Yeah, and, I am too, feel foolish and angry about this obviously shameless person who had abused our trust... *grrr*!!
And so, I de-friend this LJ immediately - as you and *NYMPH* did, too. And I hope, that his crap will not longer paste on us, his unsuspecting, former "friends" & readers.